A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Let's bring in Richard Haass into the conversation. He's an experienced diplomat and served as president of the Council on Foreign Relations for 20 years. He also publishes the Substack Home & Away. Richard, let's start with Venezuela. We just heard from Michele Kelemen that Delcy Rodríguez, the country's interim president, said in her speech that Venezuela will hold elections and transition to, quote, "full democracy." How genuine of a commitment does that sound to you?
RICHARD HAASS: Well, ultimately, there has to be some political reform in order to keep stability, to have legitimacy. I think she and, actually, the administration are right that you can't jam it through. You don't want to see this trigger civil resistance or armed resistance, much less. There's a lack of a specific timetable, so I think it's a question of when rather than if. But at least she put it on the agenda for the first time since taking office. And I think that's a step in the right direction.
MARTÍNEZ: President Trump made a big deal to get 65 billion barrels of Venezuelan oil. He's very proud of that. Now, here's the thing, Richard, with free democracies. They could vote in leaders that may not want to cooperate with the Trump administration on oil the way Delcy Rodríguez has. How much do you think the United States will be a partner in helping establish a democracy in Venezuela?
HAASS: Well, it has not been a priority at all for this administration. And look, what you mention is a big issue. There's questions of the future of Venezuelan politics, if there are elections, who wins them. There's also big questions about the future of American politics, if you were to have, say, a Democrat president who disagrees with what the United States has been doing in Venezuela. And the problem of all this for oil companies is they have to make enormous investments that pay out over, say, a decade. And this uncertainty politically at both ends is not a good thing.
MARTÍNEZ: All right. So what did you make of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's speech and the talk of Russia's war spreading?
HAASS: It's real. It's what a lot of people in Europe are worried about, that Russia might put pressure on European countries, particularly the Baltic countries, maybe Poland, in order to intimidate them, to get them to back off support for Ukraine. Maybe also Putin wants to show the cleavages within NATO, and particularly between the United States and its European partners. He's not winning the war with Ukraine, but he maybe could score a geopolitical victory against NATO.
MARTÍNEZ: What about at the General Assembly, was there any speech to you that was especially impactful or that caught your ear?
HAASS: The one speech everybody is talking about is President Trump's speech because really what it did was underscore that this is a fundamentally different American foreign policy. For 80 years, we led the world, I'd say, through consent. And what you had here was much more the United States leading the world, or attempting to impose its will on the world, more through coercion, much more unilaterally. A very different relationship between the United States and the world. Not that that was new, but it was underscored.
MARTÍNEZ: You know, we've heard analysis earlier this week that the U.N. was becoming less relevant, that a lot of the real conversations were happening off on the sidelines. Richard, so far, have you seen anything this week that differs from that assessment?
HAASS: No. The U.N. has become a venue, almost like Davos or any of these other places where people gather. But the actual U.N. is a place where, one, people give speeches, and two, they set up side meetings. But the U.N. as an institution that collectively does something? Not at all. And in some ways, it can't. Great power politics - Russia, China, the United States - have reemerged. And the U.N. now is as gridlocked as the streets of New York City.
MARTÍNEZ: Wow, a venue. That's a quite different way to see the United Nations.
HAASS: It's not what the founders anticipated. But again, great power politics, rivalries, make the Security Council, which requires consensus - it gets in the way of any collective action. And I don't think that's going to change. The U.N. reflects the world much more than leads the world.
MARTÍNEZ: Richard Haass is president emeritus at the Council on Foreign Relations. Richard, thank you.
HAASS: Thanks for having me.
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