SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
When Russia first attacked Ukraine nearly five years ago, Joe Biden was president, and the official U.S. response sounded like this.
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JOE BIDEN: Putin's aggression against Ukraine will end up costing Russia dearly.
DETROW: Fast-forward to now. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has spent the past week reminding the world of the importance of international support in interviews with American outlets...
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PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: When Putin attacked us and began occupation, we didn't run away. We stood strong on the side of Western partners, on the side of Europe, and, of course, on the side of the American people.
DETROW: ...In meetings in Europe...
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ZELENSKYY: We're losing people and time. And it's a pity, because our children don't have see - don't have real-life childhood.
DETROW: ...And with members of Congress. Still, under President Trump, U.S. policy has taken a dramatic turn toward Russia. Paperwork to transfer critical munitions to Ukraine sits on the defense secretary's desk unsigned. Trump waived sanctions on Russia recently and signed an oil deal with Moscow. To take stock of this moment, we have called former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, William Taylor. Ambassador, thank you for joining us.
WILLIAM TAYLOR: Scott, thanks for having me.
DETROW: You served under both the George W. Bush administration and the Obama administration. And before we get into the last few weeks, let's start with this. What was the biggest material change in terms of the U.S. view of Ukraine when President Trump came back into office?
TAYLOR: Well, Scott, you remind us that the Russians actually first invaded in 2014, when Obama was president. And then when they invaded in 2022, and Biden was president, there was outrage. There was a strong reaction. Eventually, the Biden administration got around to providing weapons that the Ukrainians needed. So that unified - there was a unified response, not just within the United States, but also internationally. And that we are now losing.
DETROW: You know, we all remember that blow-up meeting between Trump and Zelenskyy in the Oval Office in February 2025 - early months of this new administration. I think a lot of people found it shocking, and a lot of people thought at that time, well, that might be it for Ukraine in terms of U.S. support. The military support has continued, the aid has continued. What has changed in recent weeks?
TAYLOR: Well, actually, the military support has not continued. At that time, back in that time of the Oval Office meeting, you're right - there was a big flow of weapons, of ammunition, of finance, of humanitarian support, and Ukraine needed all of that. It was counting on the United States for a big flow.
Today, that's much less. The assistance has dropped by - it's got - by 95%. We're not providing any weapons or ammunition. We're providing no financial support. So there's a lot less on the table. What we do provide still, or had been, is reliable military intelligence and Starlink and the ability of the Europeans to buy weapons for the Ukrainians from American firms. All of that's in jeopardy at this point...
DETROW: And there...
TAYLOR: ...Which is to say that we, the United States and this administration, has much less influence, much less say about what goes on in this war.
DETROW: How likely do you think it is of an absolute hard stop on all of those things?
TAYLOR: I think it's unlikely. I think it's unlikely because the American people and the Congress have been very clear in terms of the support for Ukraine and opposition to Putin. And I think there is - you're already seeing it. You've been reporting this, Scott. There is already pushback from Republicans and others across the board. I think this will have an effect.
DETROW: I want to get your point on something we talked about in the introduction - those interceptor missiles. Ukraine gets a small batch every month through NATO countries. The U.S. has to sign off on it. A U.S. official not authorized to speak publicly confirms the paperwork is being held up right now on the secretary of defense's desk. But when Secretary of State Marco Rubio was asked about this, he said, there's nothing being deliberately denied to Ukraine. There has not been some deliberate political directive to go out and harm Ukraine. I'm curious how you see it.
TAYLOR: If that's true, Scott, if what the secretary of state says is true - there's no decision - then that means the policy is to continue to provide those. And that must mean - I would assume that means - that the secretary of defense will continue to operate under the existing policy that the secretary of state says is still in effect. That is, provide the weapons, provide the military intelligence, provide the Starlink.
DETROW: What do you think of - this has been a question on a lot of people's minds for a decade now. But what do you think President Trump's ultimate goal is with Russia and with his seeming eagerness to settle this war on terms favorable to Russia?
TAYLOR: President Trump has been pretty clear that he wants to end this war, and that's a good thing. And he's put some effort into a negotiation, and that's a good thing. The problem has been that he has given gifts - carrots - to the Russians and seems to have shifted into a pro-Russian stance and an anti-Ukrainian stance. That is not going to end the war. President Trump is not going to succeed in ending this war if he puts his weight behind the Russians, because the Ukrainians will not stop, Scott. The Ukrainians can't stop. If they stop, then there's no Ukraine.
DETROW: I mean, is there - there is a line of thinking that's pretty present in politics, that you're aware of, that's saying this war has been going on for four years. So many lives have been lost. So much money has been spent - American money, EU money, Ukrainian money. What do you say to the enough is enough argument of end this war on the terms and end this strange mix of drone warfare and World War I trench warfare that's been in place for years now?
TAYLOR: The Ukrainians have a say. The Ukrainians know what it's like to live under the Russians. They know this argument better than anyone. They know how bad it is for them. They know how often they get battered by the Russians. And they are continuing to resist because they see what happens when some of their co-patriots, their compatriots, where they live under Russian rule - it's horrible. They don't want to live there. They're going to continue to resist that.
DETROW: That is William Taylor, a distinguished fellow at The Atlantic Council and a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine. Thank you so much for your time.
TAYLOR: Thank you, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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