New Hampshire Representative Maggie Goodlander this week joined five other Democratic lawmakers – all with military or intelligence backgrounds – in an online video urging U.S. military personnel to refuse illegal orders.
President Donald Trump responded to the video in a series of online posts on Thursday, calling that message, quote, “seditious behavior, punishable by death."
NHPR’s Julia Furukawa spoke with Goodlander on All Things Considered.
Transcript
Congresswoman, this video you participated in essentially restates current law about military conduct when it comes to refusing illegal orders. What specifically led you and these other Democratic lawmakers to put this out right now?
Julia, we are a group of veterans and national security professionals who love this country deeply and who all swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, and honoring that — it's the same oath that our service members take. Upholding that oath really means upholding the basic obligation under federal law to obey lawful orders and lawful orders only. It's a simple restatement of a core American principle and an actual federal law, and that is that you do not obey illegal orders.
And look, I think we are living through an unprecedented moment in our country's history where we have a president and a secretary of defense who have – You know, I'll just tell you, as a member of the House Armed Services Committee, it was stunning and deeply disturbing when I asked the secretary of defense a very simple question, "Will you obey a decision of the United States Supreme Court?" And he refused to confirm that he would indeed abide by such a decision. That is not an American way of doing business. It is not consistent with the oath that we all take to this Constitution. And I think it's really important now for our service members to know that the Congress and our country has their back as they work to uphold their oath and to abide by the obligation under federal law to obey lawful orders and lawful orders only.
But how, in the moment, is a rank and file member of the military supposed to decide what orders violate the Constitution?
Julia, this is a message for every person, every service member and frankly, to the leaders of our military, too. What we saw in President Trump's first administration – and I served under three different presidents and under six secretaries of defense. When you take the oath, you take that oath as an American. And what we saw in the first Trump administration was Secretary Mark Esper, Secretary of Defense Esper, step up and speak clearly and in a way that is consistent with our law about illegal orders – orders that he believed to be illegal – and he stood up to those orders.
So if we ask, is there a legitimate concern here about whether the president of the United States may issue illegal orders to American troops on American soil, we have to only look at the record. And that record begins in the president's first administration. You know, I think what your listeners should know is that our service members are trained in this basic principle of law. This is part of the training and part of the preparation for serving in our military. And this is core to who we are. So this is not a controversial principle.
And Congresswoman, in the minute or so we have left, this video has obviously drawn a lot of pushback and criticism from Republicans. Here in New Hampshire, Senate President Sharon Carson has called on you to resign. And as we said earlier, President Trump today suggested your message to the military amounted to sedition and was punishable by death. Are you concerned right now?
You know I – Julia, it's hard not to be when the president of the United States threatens you with violence for simply restating a basic principle of federal law. But this is really not about me. It's not about any member of Congress. This is about a clear message to our service members who are top of mind for me. And if I were still in the Navy, I would want to hear this, too. That we've got your back. We want every person who's stepped up and had the courage to serve our country in uniform to know that we support them in abiding by their sacred oath to our Constitution and into their basic commitment to the rule of law. And that is our simple message, and it's one that I feel deeply about. And I will not be giving up the ship because that's not who I am and that's not who we are as a country.
