SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
My colleague Ailsa Chang recently spent some time talking with NPR staffers about the movies. It is the latest in our regular series Cineplexity. Here's Ailsa.
AILSA CHANG, HOST:
So for as long as we've had movies, we have had horror movies.
(SOUNDBITE OF MONTAGE)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #1: (As character) What's your favorite scary movie?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #2: (As character) Here's Johnny.
(SOUNDBITE OF BERNARD HERRMANN'S "THE MURDER")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #3: (As character, screaming).
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #4: (As character) They're here.
CHANG: We seek these films out because sometimes we just want to be terrified. We want to be shocked or grossed out. But, you know, sometimes that is exhilating. Of course, also, sometimes we might just be too young. Kids are drawn to horror, too. And I'm not just talking about movies like "Goosebumps." I'm talking about really scary stuff. So what's a healthy little scare for kids? And what is potentially scarring?
Well, we wanted to talk to two people who have had broadly different experiences when it comes to thinking about horror movies for kids - ALL THINGS CONSIDERED producer and film buff Megan Lim...
MEGAN LIM, BYLINE: Hey, hey.
CHANG: Hey, hey - and NPR music and pop culture critic and father of two young adults now, Stephen Thompson. Hey.
STEPHEN THOMPSON, BYLINE: Hey, it's great to be here.
CHANG: Great to have you both. OK, so I don't have kids, so this isn't, like, a question I personally wrestle with. But I do remember being a kid and how, like, to this day, there are certain horrifying images that remain burned into my brain after being exposed to them as a young child. Like, for me, perhaps one of the earliest movies that traumatized me to the core was "Piranha."
LIM: Such a good one.
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: No, not such a good one because it's about a swarm of, like, these killer piranhas, and people would accidentally fall out of boats - right? - and be eaten alive, and the water would get all bloody. And it made me afraid to swim in any body of water for, like, years if I couldn't see through the water. So, you know, yeah. So there are certain films that can have these lasting, terrible effects on a child's psychology. And I'm just wondering, for you guys, what's, like the earliest image, horror movie or not, that scared...
THOMPSON: Oh, man.
CHANG: ...The bleep out of you.
LIM: Oh, my God. For me, my go-to answer for this is it was "The Mummy." And we had it on VHS, and my siblings would watch it all of the time. And every single time that they watched it, I was the youngest child, and I was - even if I was scared, I insisted on watching it with them. But it was the scene where they have the beetles that go under people's skin, and you can...
CHANG: Oh.
THOMPSON: Oh, sure.
LIM: ...See the lump of it move...
CHANG: Ew.
LIM: ...Up their body.
THOMPSON: (Laughter).
LIM: And then it, like, goes up to their face. Oh, my God.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE MUMMY")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #5: (As character) Help me. Help me.
LIM: Oh, it's so gross, and I would have a...
THOMPSON: So gross.
LIM: ...Nightmare every single time. But I loved it. I love that movie to this day.
CHANG: You loved getting creeped out. What about you, Stephen?
THOMPSON: So my first horror memory is more horror-movie adjacent. In 1977, I was 4 or 5. My family went to the Universal Studios lot, and they had just introduced a ride with the movie "Jaws."
LIM: Nice.
THOMPSON: And...
CHANG: Oh, I remember this ride.
THOMPSON: Yes. And so, my father was sort of - I remember him basically dangling me over the side of this boat. I don't think he was. He was a very good man.
(LAUGHTER)
THOMPSON: But basically, of course, the giant shark comes (imitating shark)...
CHANG: Yes.
THOMPSON: ...Out of the water right directly by my face, my terrified, shrieking 4- or 5-year-old face.
CHANG: (Laughter).
THOMPSON: And so I - really, that scarred me for, let's just say, life.
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: Well, that does raise the question, like, should we talk about - you know, there is a distinction between horror movie genre and other things that are terrifying to kids.
LIM: Horror for adults often poses children as an object of terror...
THOMPSON: Absolutely.
CHANG: Yeah.
LIM: ...You know, like, "The Shining," the girls in the hallway...
CHANG: "Poltergeist."
LIM: "Poltergeist," "The Grudge" - there's always these, like, cursed, creepy children. And as an adult, I am afraid of children.
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: Same with Chucky, the doll.
LIM: Exactly. Right.
THOMPSON: Absolutely.
LIM: So much of our adult horror is based off of childhood, but I think it's interesting - scary kids' movies, where the kid is the hero and, oftentimes, the adults are kind of scary. Or, like, I think of, like, "Coraline."
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "CORALINE")
DAKOTA FANNING: (As Coraline) I want to be with my real mom and dad. I want you to let me go.
TERI HATCHER: (As the Other Mother) Is that any way to talk to your mother?
FANNING: (As Coraline) You aren't my mother.
LIM: Coraline's the hero. She is kind of taking on all of this horrific stuff, and the villain is the Other Mother, you know? It's like...
CHANG: Oh.
LIM: ...What is this parent thing? And I think it's a different thing for a kid to watch something that's geared for them and to see themselves in these stories, I think, is a different thing than just seeing something that is scary when you're a kid.
CHANG: Well, that leads me to the next question. Like, what are some examples of horror movies that are appropriate for kids? Is it seeing kids championed as heroes? Or that's not necessarily...
LIM: For me, personally, I think it's best when it is that. I don't know. Stephen, do you have...
CHANG: Yeah.
THOMPSON: Yeah, I mean, I think there are a number of different ways to look at the question cause, of course, every kid is different, and some things are appropriate for some kids but not others. In my family, the greatest gateway into horror was Tim Burton. So "Beetlejuice"...
CHANG: Yeah.
THOMPSON: "Frankenweenie," "The Nightmare Before Christmas"...
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "THIS IS HALLOWEEN")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTORS: (As characters, singing) This is Halloween. This is Halloween. Pumpkins scream...
THOMPSON: ..Cartoony, sometimes even actual cartoons that give the vibes and have the beats of horror, but there's a light touch. There's not viscera. There's an understanding of childhood. There's, like, a sense of childlike wonder. And when I think about my son - he's 24 now. But I remember him describing the first thing that really traumatized him in a movie was a scene in the movie "The Incredibles," where they're kind of, like, going into a cave, and they find the skeleton of...
CHANG: Oh.
THOMPSON: ...Like, a superhero who has died, and that skeleton haunted him. Well, I didn't take my son to "The Incredibles" thinking I - you know, oh, this is going to...
CHANG: Yeah.
THOMPSON: ...Scar him but good.
LIM: Good scare.
THOMPSON: But you can find trauma anywhere.
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: Yay.
LIM: Maybe that's, like, an argument for it, too. It's like, look, they're going to be traumatized anywhere. I don't know. Maybe start...
CHANG: Start them early.
LIM: Maybe this is too much of a childless, young person's perspective. I'm like, yeah, whatever. They'll get traumatized however.
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: Well, OK. Well, then the next question I have...
LIM: Show them something.
CHANG: ...Is, is there an age? Even though all children - each child is different and unique in this beautiful big world, is there still an age where it's too early to introduce that kid to a horror movie, would you say?
THOMPSON: I think it really depends on the kid. And you can kind of read what is bothering your kid, what is deemed traumatic by your kid, what has bothered your kid. Like, for example, the fact that my son was bothered by that skeleton in "The Incredibles" meant, OK, I'm probably not going to sit down with him and watch "The Evil Dead." You know but...
LIM: Good call.
THOMPSON: ...My daughter - I tell this story all the time. But when my daughter was, I want to say, like, 11 or 12, I remember tucking her in at night and turning out her light and kissing her forehead and then hearing her sweet, inquisitive voice through the darkness, Dad, have you ever heard of a movie called "The Human Centipede"?
(LAUGHTER)
LIM: No.
(LAUGHTER)
LIM: No.
CHANG: What did you say?
THOMPSON: And so that's there to tell you...
(LAUGHTER)
THOMPSON: ...First of all, you cannot control everything to which your child is exposed or everything your child knows about. Kids have access to the Internet. Kids have access to other kids. Kids are constantly trying to shock and horrify each other.
CHANG: Yeah.
THOMPSON: The best advice that I can give to parents is to watch these things with your kids and talk with them, watch them process and kind of talk them through it. But also remember that every kid is different.
CHANG: Yeah.
LIM: And remember that "The Human Centipede" is inappropriate for all ages.
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: All humans...
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: ...Centipedes or not.
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: Oh, my God. You guys are so fun. That was ALL THINGS CONSIDERED producer Megan Lim and NPR music and pop culture critic Stephen Thompson. Thank you to both of you.
LIM: Thank you.
THOMPSON: Thank you.
LIM: That was fun. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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