ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
We turn now to former Baltimore Deputy Police Commissioner John Skinner. He's a 22-year veteran of the police department. Skinner worries that recent events have led people to think there is a void in policing right now.
JOHN SKINNER: There is some indication that the officers are just being less proactive in their style of policing. But I think even beyond maybe the actual numbers is if there's a perception that the police officers are doing less, that perception is almost as bad as the reality itself because, you know, this small population of violent criminals that exist in every community may feel empowered by that. And that empowerment can certainly create these cycles of violence that are occurring.
SHAPIRO: Very recently, people in Baltimore were furious at the police for what they saw as overuse of force. Do you sympathize with the police officer who now says, OK, I'm going to take a step back?
SKINNER: Well, I think Baltimore's very fortunate because, you know, the vast majority of police officers are very, very committed individuals. And to see kind of that relationship deteriorate based upon kind of the series of events that occur, I think has everybody very, very concerned.
SHAPIRO: Why do you think Baltimore is now experiencing this 40-year high in murders?
SKINNER: I think we start looking at kind of the riots that occurred. And, you know, this may be this feeling that the criminal element kind of coming out of those riots felt some level of empowerment as a result. You know, there's some information that exists that suggests that's occurred in a number of areas around the United States in kind of these post-riot situations. And then you have this conditional factor of the police department kind of pulling back, whether it's partially actual and partially perceptional.
And then you have these two kind of things that are regularly concerns - this seasonal change in crime. You know, it's getting warmer, and this tends to be a period of time when violence normally will see an upward kind of trend. But then on top of that, as all of this violence is occurring, you have these retaliatory cycles that are - occurs, too. So if you just look in that month and the experience of 100 nonfatal shootings and the 34 homicides that occurred, you have to think that each one of those incidents now has the potential for another cycle of retaliation on top of that. And that's what's probably most concerning about that is that it doesn't appear to be so much like an isolated spike but this kind of trend that's gaining some level of momentum.
SHAPIRO: Baltimore is your hometown. You were a police officer there for more than 20 years. How do you personally feel, seeing these crime figures?
SKINNER: You know, I was fortunate over my career to work in the Western District and to work in Sandtown and run the district there. And the community there, just like every community in America, really wants the same thing - they want professional police, and they want the police to be partners within improving the neighborhood. And when you peel back all the other layers, that's really fundamentally what policing is all about. And I think the best suggestion, really, going forward, is once again to look in our past. And American policing is most effective when our officers are out and engaging the community in really positive ways.
SHAPIRO: That's John Skinner, former deputy police commissioner for Baltimore. He now teaches criminal justice at Towson University. Thanks very much for your time.
SKINNER: Thank you, sir. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.