AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
Many people are waiting to see if the Trump administration releases any more information related to the convicted sex offender and alleged sex trafficker, Jeffrey Epstein. The Justice Department did move last month to unseal grand jury transcripts in Epstein's criminal cases, but the effort was blocked by a federal judge who said the transcripts could only be unsealed in very specific circumstances. Another judge has asked for more information from the government about their motion to unseal the transcripts. Those answers are due tomorrow. Matthew Connelly is a professor of history at Columbia University. He studies sealed and classified information, and he joins us now. Welcome.
MATTHEW CONNELLY: Great to be with you.
RASCOE: How is the call to release documents related to Jeffrey Epstein and other materials different from declassifying documents?
CONNELLY: Well, one big difference is that as far as we know, we're not talking about classified information, and that means that a government official who has the authority to decide what's a national security secret. As far as we know, no one like that, you know, has gone through these records and said, you know, this is national security information, this is top secret-secret, etc. So these are other kinds of secrets. These are Department of Justice secrets, grand jury testimony, etc.
RASCOE: Do you see any parallels to previous events in American history?
CONNELLY: Oh, yeah. There are a lot of examples in our history where the American people wanted the government to tell them more, you know, about things that they should care about, whether we're talking about the Kennedy assassination or the origins of the Vietnam War. So there are many examples like this, and it's an ongoing struggle. And it has been for many decades now.
RASCOE: Can I ask you, like, how easy is it to redact information? I mean, 'cause even if some things are classified or just need to be redacted, can't you just put a little black bar over it and then release it?
CONNELLY: (Laughter) Absolutely. It's so common. So many documents, when they do see the light of day, you know, they're covered with black bars where you can't read the text, sometimes whole pages like that. And it's not just, you know, declassified documents. Sometimes the government releases other kinds of records where they'll try to protect, for instance, the names of victims, like, especially in a case like this one with sexual abuse.
RASCOE: A federal judge did block the release of grand jury transcripts in Epstein's case last month. That's not necessarily the final word. I think there are other things going on with the court case. But what can Congress or the president still do as far as releasing documents?
CONNELLY: The whole business about the grand jury testimony, it's a bit of a red herring because only a small percentage of these records relate to grand jury testimony. We can't know for sure, but in a case like this one, you know, we're probably talking 15%, at most, you know, maybe even as little as 5. So the government, it's within its powers to release the vast majority of these records. You know, some have said, and I think it's very plausible, the Trump administration is making it seem as if courts are stopping them, whereas there is actually quite a lot that they could put out if they wish to.
RASCOE: Senate Democrats are trying to use this little-known rule called the Rule of Five to get these files released. Can you explain what that is?
CONNELLY: Yeah, this is an old law. It's rarely used, but it does give any five senators the ability to request the release of information from a federal department or agency as long as it's within, you know, that Senate committee's purview. Now, because it's rarely used, we really don't know what's going to happen in this case. But what we have seen, you know, over and over again is the Trump administration, whether the first Trump administration or this one, you know, has frequently defied requests from Congress and even from the courts in some cases.
RASCOE: Administrations in the past, you know, you have people calling for release information, release the information. Have they paid a price for not making documents public?
CONNELLY: Well, we all pay a price, after all - right? - because ultimately these officials are supposed to be accountable to us, to the American people. And over so many years now, when in cases like this, the government withholds information, even when there are huge majorities of the American people, it just undermines, you know, the basic trust that we have in government. Unfortunately, all too frequently, there's good reason why people have mistrusted the government to do the people's will. But I think it's even more common because of those notorious cases and because of the lingering mistrust in cases like this one, that we suspect even worse (laughter). I mean, that's what fuels conspiracy theories.
RASCOE: That's Matthew Connelly. He's a professor of history at Columbia University. Thank you so much for joining us.
CONNELLY: Oh, thank you. I enjoyed it.
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